Monday, March 4, 2013

pugilism

Arguing is the first association that comes to mind when I think of pugilism, and that got me thinking about differences in American and French conversation styles. While I don't wish to make any unfairly nomothetic statements, based on my experience I think that American and French people tend to have different attitudes towards arguing.

In American culture, we usually try to avoid arguments in conversation, unless they take place in a culturally sanctioned space such as a class discussion, a debate team meet or a political think tank program on tv. Outside of such contexts, arguing usually has a negative connotation. To our way of thinking, arguments erupt when two or more people are angry with each other, and while we do acknowledge the possibility for "healthy arguing," we usually prefer to "let sleeping dogs lie" unless or until we feel that an underlying disagreement must be addressed to release tension and/or repair a relationship.

When we make conversation, we like to smooth things over and keep the tone non-controversial (hence the saying about avoiding "sex, politics and religion") especially when talking to people we don't know well and thus aren't sure where we stand with. I once heard the American conversation style compared to jazz improvisation: one person expresses an idea and then second person echos and elaborates on what the first person said: "I'm so tired of this cold weather."    --"Me too. I'm ready for spring." It seems to me that we Americans like to talk about the weather because it's such an easy, inoffensive topic. Unfortunately, it also becomes meaningless after a while. I often catch myself nodding "yes" and agreeing with other people even when I don't particularly agree - and often because I don't fully understand what they're saying and I don't what to get into a more involved conversation with them!

The French have a somewhat different approach. Few if any taboos exist, and people enjoy friendly arguments about politics and current events. If American conversation is like a jazz improvisation session, it's more like a fencing match for the French: intelligent debate is what makes the conversation lively and interesting. Because debate is expected and considered good conversational form, a French person might defend an argument not because he or she necessarily agrees with it, but because he/she sees it as the role that needs to be filled in the conversation. I think this is particularly telling because it contrasts so sharply with what I contend the typical American attitude to be: that what I have to contribute to the conversation is my own opinion. If others don't agree with me I might try to persuade them, but I certainly wouldn't try to argue with them if they held the same opinion as me.

Fellow French students -- do you agree with my assessment? What has your experience been? How do the Germans compare? I'm interested to hear your take!

10 comments:

  1. "Fencing" is my favorite type of conversation, but as I have noticed in America, it is hard to "fence" without getting offended. Everyone can call offense to any disagreement one has against their own opinions, even it a level setting. I love to debate because it allows me to see the other side of things that I normally would not see or think of. I also think that we allow too many people to use the excuses of "being offended" instead of learning from conversation. I think I need to move to France/Germany. :)

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    1. Ashley -

      I agree that in the States we tend to avoid controversial topics because we're afraid of offending each other. It's a shame we're not more open to sharing and hearing different points of views with more people - we'd all learn something.

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  2. I will have to agree with Ashley. I probably shouldn't, however do, play devil's advocate a great deal in conversations just because I enjoy those types of conversations. I do have to agree with you Kate on the way you represent an American conversation. People do not want to offend anyone, we always want to stay neutral on any topic. Although I don't think people need to be going around forcing their ideas upon everyone (because that is more annoying), people should be open to agree or disagree without people being completely offended.

    I personally lean with the French aspect on this. I like to have conversations with multiple sides. Even if a conversation were say to get "heated", to me it means people actually care what I have to say and aren't merely echoing what I said. People need to have their own thoughts and opinions. We need to encourage a world of thinkers, not repeaters.

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    1. Randi -

      That's a good point and a good way of putting it that when conversations get heated, it just means that people care - it doesn't have to be a negative thing. I enjoy having easy going small talk with people sometimes, but sometimes I do regret that there aren't more opportunities to disagree or debate in a civil way. It's a skill that I think French people tend to value more highly. (By the way, I notice that we're all very politely agreeing with each other in these comment threads -- is that a bad sign?:)

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  3. Have you guys seen Ridicule? "1996 French film set in the 18th century at the decadent court of Versailles, where social status can rise and fall based on one's ability to mete out witty insults and avoid ridicule oneself." (Wiki) I always think of this when I think about French conversation.
    I'm glad most of us in class seem to agree that arguments and debates are more fun; no one seems too shy to disagree in discussion and on our blogs.

    I'd like to hear what our German students think about German vs American style of conversation.

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    1. $ara,

      I have not seen or heard of Ridicule but it sounds consistent with the picture of 18th French society that we (grad students) studied last semester. It's a bit intimidating really; I think I'd be considered a bit gauche if I had lived back then. I probably would have banished to my chateau in the country as punishment for some social faux pas. I will look for that movie - thanks!

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  4. I too, like Ashley and Randi said, much more prefer the "fencing" style to the "jazz" style of conversation. There's no fun in debating if everyone's in agreement. Then we're all just stroking our own egos.

    While I agree with your assessment of American conversations on the whole (we do on the most part seem to tend to shy away from intense arguments), I absolutely see the opposite as well. I think Americans, though we tend to be more "jazzy" in conversation, will do like the French and draw out the fencing foil in regard to those touchy subjects (sex, religion, politics). That is where people tend to have the strongest opinions, and therefore may be more willing to engage in verbal sparring. I just wish more people could have intelligent, rational discussions on those topics. Like Randi said, forcing one's opinions on others is no fun, but we should be able to express those opinions and respectfully discuss them. When I was in France, I never felt shy about expressing my opinions. I don't really in America either, but I do know that people will refrain from bringing up certain topics in certain company. Sometimes I'll even do the same, mostly to avoid trying my own patience with others' intolerance. That's not to say that I won't take off the boxing gloves and defend my opinions if needed...but I do know that sometimes even if I defend my opinions it won't be received with any kind of rational appreciation, which is a shame.

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    1. Katie,

      I think you hit on an important idea when you say "I just wish more people could have intelligent, rational discussions on those topics." When people in the US feel very strongly about an issue in religion or politics, for example, they may be willing to argue about it, but often not in an intelligent, rational and respectful fashion. It's often a negative experience for both parties, which is why it's considered good form in our culture not to mention controversial subjects in mixed company.

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  5. There are certain instances where the French and Americans do not comply to each other.
    As already mentioned , certain topics can be very difficult to discuss in America. Religious topics can be an example. This is because individuals do not want to offend others. However, in France, these topics can be discussed openly.

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    1. Nii,

      Having lived in France for several years, perhaps you have a different perspective on this issue. Are there any topics that the French get heated and angry over, or that they avoid discussing? What is your impression of how Americans make conversation? What is it like in Ghana?

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